Welcome to the Maiden Flight (00:27)

Tom Ritchie Says: Hey, what’s up everyone? Welcome to Legacies. I’m your host, Tom Ritchie. Joining me, as usual, is co-host and executive producer Mr. Wes Bowles. Wes, we’ve got a great fucking show this week, a great show. You know who the guest is? The OGs.

Wes Bowles Says: The OGs! “Hey there, hey there” man. Jeff and Sheri Aubin of Smoker Farms. I’m fucking pumped.

Tom Ritchie Says: Right, right. Well, and that’s what we do, right? We tell the story behind the legacy. So I’m pretty sure it’s going to get interesting. I know that they’ve just gotten back from Mexico not too long ago. We’re going to find out how good the weed was down there, that’s what I’m really curious about.

Tom Ritchie Says: Anyways, listen, I love studio days. I fucking love them because I get to get away from the computer. Now I know I’m at the computer, but I get to get away from it for a minute, meaning the team’s doing their thing. We get to be here doing this, and I get it, there’s a lot of setup involved, but I really enjoy this.

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah. Our maiden voyage, or… well, we’re not actually… we’re The High Flyer, so it’s our maiden flight. Does that make more sense?

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah. What did you get up to last night?

Casual Banter, Gaming, and Late Night TV (02:01)

Wes Bowles Says: Played a new game.

Tom Ritchie Says: New game? As in, like, new release game, or…? Because I’m not a gamer. I jump on at Christmas time and I do, like, you know, the four-week stint of play with my son. Play, play, play, get good at it-ish, and then I desert it again. It’s almost like when I play guitar: I’ll play in six months and then I have to recallous my fingers again because I’ve given it up.

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh, you know what? We… I think thinking this, mate. Yeah. So my son, yeah, yeah, yeah, and he comes on as CanAttack, right? So, I’m not sure if we should have that out there, but regardless. What is it? It’s a first-person shooter game, it’s quite popular. I actually forget the name of it. But we played Battlefield for a while. I did like that, I think 4 or 5. And then we moved into… it was Call of Duty. Yeah, it was Call of Duty.

Tom Ritchie Says: And, dude, when I… like, I think that’s the issue with me is I have a very addictive personality. Like, crazy addictive. Stay away from cocaine, stay away from crack, stick to cannabis, you know, that sort of thing. [laughs] But I can beat my addictions quickly in most cases. My wife would argue that that is not the case, but I will kill someone, that’s for sure. But, no, it was fun. You know, we get on Call of Duty or something like that, he’ll call me down. We’ll play a little NHL. My son’s a competitive hockey player, so he likes to play NHL quite a bit.

Tom Ritchie Says: But, yeah. So you did some gaming? I think as I’m getting older, I’m just getting more boring. And especially since, you know, the whole work-from-home thing became a thing, right? My commute is ten seconds, and the rest of what I do is behind the desk, grab a coffee. You know, I work quite late in most cases. So the TV may not come on… I shouldn’t say the TV may not come on late, because I am getting older and I do watch Jeopardy every day religiously.

Tom Ritchie Says: Listen, I actually… so I love the days of Alex Trebek. I’m not as old to go to the previous host, whatever that gentleman’s name was. But for myself, Ken Jennings, he does it for me. Obviously, you know, background on him, he was one of the top winning contestants of all time. And he actually got fucked on a really bad question, which was something about holidays, and it was something about a two-month seasonal holiday. And he had responded like UPS, and what they were looking for was H&R Block. And he got taken down. The entire world knew the answer, and I don’t know if it was pressure, I don’t know what happened, but that was his downfall. It was that day.

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah. [laughs] You yell at the screen.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, and I mean, again, we like to critique. It’s like armchair quarterbacking or, you know, keyboard heroes or warriors or whatever we call them. And we think we can do better, right? We yell at the TV. The pressure that you must be under while you’re there with the cameras on you, trying to win a million… like, let alone winning a million dollars, you could be doing that in private, but you got all these cameras on you and an audience watching. Yeah, I’d probably shit the bed too.

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, for sure.

Tom Ritchie Says: I’m not sure if that’s still running, but I do see Deal or No Deal making a comeback. I think… I’m pretty sure it’s making a comeback. I do believe so. And Howie Mandel, he’s gone quite the other side, right? Like he used to be quite conservative. I mean, his early days stand-up was fairly raw. Was Eddie Murphy raw or, you know, any of these other ones like Theo Von? Theo Von, this guy fucking cracks me up.

Tom Ritchie Says: But anyways, you know, he got tight and now he’s loosened up a little bit. And I’ve seen, you know, even on Your Mom’s House, right? I think it was one of the podcasts I’d seen him on, and he was saying stuff that I’m like, holy shit, that’s Howie Mandel! I don’t know if it’s like shock now and he’s trying to rebuild or regain. I mean, obviously he’s on, you know, America’s Got Talent or whatever it might be, but, yeah, I was quite surprised the way that he is. Did you see that Dana White podcast walkout?

Pop Culture, Sci-Fi, and Life with Dogs (06:59)

Wes Bowles Says: No, I didn’t, but I could imagine that would be quite interesting.

Tom Ritchie Says: And he’s gone, really? Well, we’ll have to see what the outcome of some of those are, because that’s not the first time Dana White’s done that.

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Tom Ritchie Says: What’s going on? Oh, wait, wait, hold on a second. Back to last night: so I got a haircut, that’s the… yeah, I got a haircut. And I watched one episode of For All Mankind. You’ve got me addicted to that show!

Tom Ritchie Says: I’ve been letting it play, so I think I’m on… it’s ’95, it’s when they had stepped on the moon. It’s ’95, and we’re like two episodes in, something along those lines. Ed is going back to command the private… I’m horrible with…

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, that’s right. Helios.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, that’s right, yeah, yeah. So he’s going to command that. But anyways, Tanya thinks it’s very steady, right? And I find it very high and low, right? It’s good one episode, and then it’s [sighs] the next episode. But all in all, it’s pretty good. And speaking of that, go ahead.

Wes Bowles Says: Right. It builds up expectations…

Tom Ritchie Says: And then you’re pissed when it doesn’t, because of that predictable nature of the show, you’re like, “Oh, this is going to happen.” But then it shows it. Oh, not at all! Now you just start warming up to the character and they’re fucking gone. Yeah. [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: But yeah, so that was my night. That’s typically my nights. You know, TV might come on, I’ll watch an hour and, you know, get anything else done. Obviously, the dogs control our fucking lives here. You’ve witnessed that firsthand multiple times. He’s a little shit. For everyone listening, you know, they’re just small dogs, 10 and 15 pounds, somewhere in there, but we dote over them. My wife, especially, loves them to pieces. Like, they’re just the most incredible, well-natured dogs.

Tom Ritchie Says: But they control our fucking lives, man. They really do. I mean, you want to go out somewhere, we’ve got three kids—which one can watch them? Because you can’t leave them for more than a few hours. I just don’t trust the little fuckers. There’s just no way. Un-neutered males, I’m thinking they’re scheming, right? They’re planning their heist of some sort, and they’re going to get into something. Come home to the fucking furniture ripped apart or something. Who knows? But anyways, oh, they’re all over the fucking place. They’re all over the place.

Entrepreneurial Drive and Reviewing Bob Marley: One Love (11:01)

Wes Bowles Says: Exactly.

Tom Ritchie Says: But we did get away. Did I tell you that? Friends invited us. This seems to be the only time we ever get to do anything as a couple anyways, is when friends invite us to do something. Because otherwise, just completely preoccupied with building a business. Working, working, working, which most criticize and they’d be like, “You need to get a hobby.” Well, fuck you, I have a hobby: it’s building a business. You know, it’s like… and some are wired for that and some aren’t, and I don’t criticize anyone that’s not or is.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yes, I like to play guitar when I get to it. Unfortunately, at this point in my life, it’s not a priority. You and I still haven’t even had a chance to jam yet. But I have hobbies: it’s building, it’s networking, it’s working with people. I just like doing this.

Wes Bowles Says: One of those days coming, hopefully! A Porsche track day?

Tom Ritchie Says: Yes, yes. Oh, yeah! Yeah, I am a Porsche enthusiast through and through, and I do not own one. If anyone wants to sponsor me from Porsche, by all means, you can go for a little test drive. Wouldn’t mind that!

Tom Ritchie Says: Anyways, I was going to tell you: so we had friends that invited us, just here in our little town, to see the movie One Love. Have you seen it?

Wes Bowles Says: The new Bob Marley? Yeah, yeah.

Tom Ritchie Says: Listen, there’s… as you know, I’m horrible with remembering actor names, fucking scenarios of a movie or a show. It doesn’t really matter what it is, I have no space in my head for that for some reason. It could be music, could be artistic, hell, song lyrics—I just don’t remember that stuff.

Tom Ritchie Says: But anyways, One Love, I really liked it. And I’ll give my critique, which means fuck all to anyone listening probably, because who the hell am I when it comes to reviewing movies? But I liked it. I liked it for a few reasons. One, you know… and not to relate this back to One Love, obviously Bob Marley being from Jamaica, his mother was Jamaican and his dad, I believe, was not far away. I know he wasn’t from Jamaica.

Tom Ritchie Says: But anyways, if I looked at it from a critique of Tom, just me enjoying a movie, I would probably give it like a seven and a half, right? What I did want was more. And the reason I wanted more was it felt like it ended not abruptly, but it left you wanting more to the story. But I think it’s only because I know a little bit more about his life. Like, I’ve been to Jamaica, I’ve been to Mount Zion, I’ve toured the memorials and been in the house that he grew up in, and it was a great experience, a really good experience.

Tom Ritchie Says: And there was live music. And I don’t know if it was the spirit of Bob, I don’t know what was going on, I don’t know if it was the weed… I broke down like a little baby and just couldn’t stop it. I just started bawling out of nowhere! I fucking swear to God. Was it the music? Was it the weed? Was it just knowing you’re in a place that a legend like Bob Marley was raised in, right?

Tom Ritchie Says: But anyways, the movie itself, I found it really, really well done. There’s a lot of critique, I understand: wrong actor choice, wrong story, plot wasn’t quite where it should have been. What I did find was at the very beginning of the movie, there was a lot of conspiracy theory around Bob Marley stuff. Was it the CIA? Was it someone put some copper wire in his soccer shoes or football, for those that like the proper terminology? I don’t know what it was, right? But Bob passed.

Tom Ritchie Says: And you know what? We understand that at least even in the movie, it is portrayed as cancer. He ended up with cancer in his toe, refused to have it operated on from what I understand. Doctor wanted to remove it and he was like, “No,” and just lived his life and did what he does, and eventually passed. And he was like 36—I could get this wrong—37 years old. But anyways, really, really good movie, I liked it. I think that if you’re looking for a biography, there’s better ones, right? Go and watch a biography or biopic. If you’re looking for something that you just want to enjoy without critiquing it, and is it historically accurate, then it’s a different story. Then you can enjoy it, right?

Tom Ritchie Says: I do feel that it was slightly washed. And we know why producers choose to do this, right? It’s to cater to a broader audience. Right? Even our own considerations when how are we going to line Legacies up: do we stick within the confines of cannabis and what we really know, or do we continue to branch out a bit? And I do feel that in the case of One Love, his character was washed just a touch so that it would cater to a larger audience and draw more. You’ve got it up—what are the ratings in general? IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes?

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, I think it was getting ratings in and around 6.7, maybe to 7. Audience score is quite high, critics are around mid-sixties.

Tom Ritchie Says: We’d love to know what everyone thinks on it if they’ve seen the movie, because, you know, my experience is a little different. Well, I don’t know if we’re ever going to get into officially reviewing movies, but if we are: go see One Love, the Bob Marley story. Similar in the intent to tell the story, but drastically different. Drastically different. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Rebel Records Legend Vinyl Giveaway (17:39)

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, listen, on that note, our incredible partner and vendor over at Rebel Records has agreed to give away a Bob Marley record. Yes, he has. Dave Graham, incredible individual, we’ve mentioned him before. Our sole and only vinyl record vendor, the only one that we’ll have on The High Flyer. Incredible selection. You know, if you don’t find it online, then just ask, and chances are he has it. We’ve touched on this before: I think we only have 3 to 5% maximum of his inventory, but it’s definitely something you want to check out. I know we get shopped a lot, and it’s probably because of his prices. Canada-wide shipping—it’s not included, obviously. You know, it’s a smaller shop, you can’t include that. It’s not Amazon, we’re supporting local, or at least smaller shops.

Tom Ritchie Says: But anyways, Rebel Records has agreed to give away a copy of Legend, so we’ll do that typical: follow Rebel Records, follow The High Flyer aka follow Legacies. I mean, you need to be following us as well, because how else are you going to get this? And tag a friend. Let’s do tag a friend, does that work? Tag a friend, okay. So tag a friend, and we’re not going to get you to tell us why you love Bob Marley or his music, but we’ll just assume that it’s implied.

Tom Ritchie Says: Let’s do a 48-hour window on it from the time that this… I’m assuming we’ll pull out this clip. So let’s do a 48-hour window on it, end of the week.

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, 48 hours to the end of the week sounds good.

Tom Ritchie Says: Only for Canadian residents. We’ll do the giveaway again: it’s a Bob Marley Legend album, which is basically a greatest hits. I have it, I was actually listening to it on the weekend. Great album, absolutely great album. So I suggest, one, check out the movie One Love, and also enter the contest to win a Bob Marley album from Rebel Records.

Creative Cannabis Marketing: The Stoked Campaign & Cookies (19:44)

Tom Ritchie Says: All right, what do we got next? Have you seen the Stoked Cannabis campaign they did?

Wes Bowles Says: They did, yeah.

Tom Ritchie Says: They did. Well, here’s the thing: we’ve been talking about this for quite some time. And to be clear, Stoked Cannabis is a dispensary or retail location with multiple locations, I think throughout Ontario. We’ll find some information at some point in time.

Tom Ritchie Says: But, yeah, the regulations are such that you can’t directly advertise your business, not to the public. So they got very creative, and they actually worked with an ad agency, Angry Butterfly. And I actually know the executive creative director there, I went to ad school with him. I did, yeah. And so what they did is chose to advertise or market their neighboring stores! So they brought those individuals into the Stoked shop, or at least had some backdrop of Stoked, and then advertised… I think there was a nail salon and an electrical company or an electrical contractor. Brilliant. It’s fucking brilliant. Mark my words: this day there will be a Clio awarded to Angry Butterfly for this campaign. I know for a fact it will be, I know it.

Wes Bowles Says: It’s super smart. Getting around the advertising regulations legitimately.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, we’ve said for a while that just because of the marketing regulations, it doesn’t mean you can’t market. You just have to get very creative, right? And, yeah, not to keep pumping what we do, but that’s what we do, right? We get creative. We go around the regs if necessary, sometimes we bend them, we try not to break them. Our brand partners and the ones that we work with, that’s their call. With a lot of what we do, it’s quick and easy to be able to take it offline, but you have to get creative.

Tom Ritchie Says: Now, obviously not every cannabis brand or every dispensary is in a position to work with an advertising agency. But you can see the ones that are reserving that marketing budget and making the best use of it. I mean, even if you as a consumer do not see this, you will see it in the news, and that was, I think, their intent. I’d love to get Ryan on at some point, he’s from Angry Butterfly, and just get his take on it and understand what was the creative process going through that. And when Stoked approached Angry Butterfly, what was the brief? I really want to know the brief.

Tom Ritchie Says: I used to live in the ad space, right? The brief was so important. In ad school it was write the brief, get the brief as concise as possible. What is it? What message are you communicating, and are you aligned with what the brand is? And then those fucking creative briefs, man, they were brutal. They were brutal.

Tom Ritchie Says: So identifying that, obviously these seasoned veterans that are in the advertising industry… you know, I’ve been in and out over the course of 15, 20 years, but these guys live and breathe it. And for them to create that and then pull that nugget out to go, “Hold on, we may not be able to market you, but we can market the retailers beside you”—that’s fucking brilliant. Anyways, mark my words, there will be a Clio.

Wes Bowles Says: What about Cookies and New Era?

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh yeah. And when you look at it, that’s the thing. Some brands have reached out and they’re up in arms: “How can they do this?” And we looked at it from multiple angles, right? Cookies, being a predominantly US brand that expanded into multiple countries, Canada being one of them, and is seeing great success in Canada. Jai is one of the founders there, I believe that’s his name. You know, they also went as far as to create a streetwear brand right out of Cookies, which is the same logo, and it does derive from a cannabis brand.

Tom Ritchie Says: Where it gets interesting—and I loved the LinkedIn post that I saw from him—it’s one thing to have your brand put on a New Era cap and sell those to customers. It’s another for New Era to approach you and license your brand. That’s different, right? And when we see this, it’s like, wow, this is fucking awesome, right? Obviously New Era saw the value in Cookies. But for us, we’re looking at it going: how the fuck did they handle this in Canada? Right? Like, our regulations are everything needs to be gated. You want to do an activation, it needs to be gated. You want to be online, it needs to be gated. Now, do all follow the rules or all care? No. Will Health Canada spend all their time scouring the universe looking for all these off-siders? No.

Tom Ritchie Says: But at some point in time, let’s face it: in business, you’re competition, and sometimes the competition doesn’t like to play fair. And we can hold hands and sing Kumbaya around a fire all we want, that this is a cannabis community built on community—not everyone sees it that way. And at the end of the day, there are some things that are offside with it. For instance, New Era sold on Lids. Lids is a Canadian website, and there is no age gating there. Do I personally care? No. Do you? I don’t think so. Does another brand, potentially? Now what is the leading cause of that? Is it jealousy? I don’t know. Is it they’re doing better or “I want to do this, so now I’m going to be a narc”? I don’t know.

Tom Ritchie Says: The fact is, they are doing it. They seem to be doing it well. We did reach out to Lids, New Era, and Cookies directly just to ask for comment when we published that article. Unfortunately, we get it, they’re all busy, and we only gave them like a 72-hour window as well. But anyways, we published that based on the facts. The facts are: Cookies streetwear and Cookies, have they partnered with New Era? New Era now has a Cookies collection, they sell it throughout the U.S. and Canada and probably anywhere else in the world, and it’s not always in an age-gated community.

Tom Ritchie Says: Now, this could be a beacon of hope for the rest of the cannabis brands and what we’re trying to accomplish, even at The High Flyer, which is maybe they’re a little bit more lax than they used to be, right? But it wasn’t that long ago that Ghost Drops… Gene and John from Ghost Drops were having an outdoor activation of some sort. Someone complained, and they had agents from Health Canada stop by and confiscate some of their, I don’t know, swag or signage. Yeah, so obviously there’s narcs out there. They exist, right? I’m pretty sure it wasn’t mom walking seven-year-old Johnny down the street and said, “Oh my god, they have a cannabis activation?” I don’t think so. I think it was another brand caught it.

Tom Ritchie Says: And let’s be clear: Ghost Drops’ Ghost 1, have you ever seen that fucking thing? Dude, it’s a Humvee. It’s not a Hummer, it’s a Humvee, and it’s fucking awesome! And Gene, John, if you ever see this clip, I want a ride in that. As a matter of fact, I want on top of that fucking thing! [laughs] Have you seen it? It’s fucking cool, right?

Wes Bowles Says: Yeah, it’s an absolute beast.

Tom Ritchie Says: Not only have I… I mean, I’m not a doomsday prepper, but I want a Hummer. Like an actual Humvee, I should say, like an H1. Yeah, yeah, I would love one. Maybe someday, who knows, if they ever make them EV. Because, you know, we’ve got to change everything by 2035 or whatever it is.

The EV Dilemma, Grid Strain, and Elon Musk (27:47)

Wes Bowles Says: They already have the EV Hummer out now.

Tom Ritchie Says: Okay, I have not seen one yet, but all-electric? It’s fully electric, right? Yeah. Yeah, like Knight Rider. That’s way before your time, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, it makes you wonder: are you buying a Hummer because you have a large family? Like, are you towing? And then to think, “I need an electric Hummer”?

Tom Ritchie Says: I saw something the other day that was actually fucking startling for a second. So as we know, in Ontario we experience our own draw on the utilities grid, or hydro. California is another story, that’s completely different with continuous rolling brownouts, and we’ve experienced this in Ontario and in other provinces throughout Canada as well. And someone was talking about, you know, battery size and all this stuff that goes into making the batteries, and it’s worse for the environment… listen, I’m not going there, right? But what dawned on me was the fact that we have messages coming from Hydro One and other municipal utilities providers saying, “Use less hydro,” or “Turn your air conditioning down,” do this, do that. And then you’ve got opposing views from the government mandating that we need to be all-electric on vehicles by the year 2035! Are they doing all the infrastructure work to accommodate that, or are we going to be fucked?

Wes Bowles Says: Well, they’re talking about battery storage technology ramping up.

Tom Ritchie Says: Okay, so are they able to ramp that up then, or it’s just the storage itself? Elon Musk is a fucking… he’s an alien. He’s got to be an alien! There’s something different about the dude. I mean, we’ve heard this a thousand times. Loved him on Joe Rogan, I love a lot of what he stands for and what he does. I couldn’t imagine being in that head, though.

Wes Bowles Says: Re-branding Twitter to X…

Tom Ritchie Says: You know, it’s always Twitter in my heart. Yeah, I don’t challenge the dude because typically he fucking knows better for some reason, because he’s an alien that’s come from another civilization with all this fucking knowledge that we’ll never be able to understand. [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: The dude spent his childhood in the corner of a library, I believe. So he was from South Africa originally, correct. And then he actually lived, and I think he even went to school in Canada. Yeah. So as a young child, everyone else is out BMXing and skateboarding and doing what they’re doing, and you’ve got young Elon sitting in the corner of a library reading fucking engineering books, building paper.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, I love the one when he got his McLaren delivery. Have you ever seen that? And he’s with his girlfriend or wife, have you ever seen that video? That’s like early days. He’s wearing a camel-colored blazer and he’s in the street—I don’t know if he’s in the US or even in Canada—but he’s taking delivery. He had just sold PayPal, taking delivery of a McLaren, and it’s basically what he said. He’s like, “I had said when I can do this, I’m buying one.”

Tom Ritchie Says: Now when you compare that young Elon, it just shows you how much we change, right? If you compare young Elon to now, he’s sold off a ton of his fucking assets. It’s almost like, “I’m just going to live and sleep in SpaceX or Twitter or X or whatever it might be called, I don’t need anything else.” Like, that’s fuck-you money. Seriously, that’s fuck-you money, where you just get up, you throw your pants half on, you don’t even worry about it. “Oh, there’s a stain on them? I don’t give a shit. Forgot to zip your fly up? Right.” You get a coffee, probably handed to you, I don’t know. Speaking of fucking coffee, I have to tell you about that catastrophe this morning. Anyways, and you just don’t care. That’s true fuck-you money. It really is.

Wes Bowles Says: When you can just write a check to buy Twitter outright…

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you’re not going to invest? That’s okay, I’ll just buy it. He’s like Rockefellers from 1929 or whatever it was when they built fucking Rockefeller Center: “Oh, we’re in a recession? Oh, I can’t get any financing? Oh, I’ll just use half of my fortune to do it and still be able to sleep comfortably.”

Product Evolution: Cannabis Beverages & 510 Vape Carts (33:14)

Tom Ritchie Says: All right, listen, what else do we got going on? Any new products on the market we should talk about?

Wes Bowles Says: I do, yeah. Some of the new infused beverages.

Tom Ritchie Says: I still haven’t tried those ones. I’ve tried a few, I really haven’t tried that many beverages, but I know you love the beverages. The effect, obviously, is a little bit different. And then we’ve got to get into: is it made with distillate? Is it made with rosin? Is it a hash? Is it a kief? What was used to create it? Because each one has a different effect, right? And obviously, you know, if they’re stripping terps or if they’re putting them back in, whatever it might be. I don’t know the beverage category that well, but we’ll dig into it. We’ll certainly dig into it.

Tom Ritchie Says: One of the ones that I’d like to understand a little bit more—and I’ve got to do some research on it, and I should have for this show—there’s a new vape cart, and I don’t even know if it’s called a vape cart now, right? Typical industry standard was the 510 vape cart. And one of the brands has come out with… I don’t use a lot of vapes, cannabis vapes, so I can’t speak to experience. I know the one-and-dones, like the disposables, which is horrible for the environment, I get it, but I liked those up until a point where they just started clogging like crazy.

Tom Ritchie Says: And then I see a lot of use of the 510 vape carts, right? Tons of flavors, it seems to be the industry standard. But there’s another one out, so we’ll try and do some research. I’m sure if we break a clip out, someone sees this, they’re going to reach out and go, “Hey, that was us! We’ve got this new vape cartridge or vape system available.” We’d love to know more. I mean, share your story: why did you invent a new one? Were the old ones leaking? This is a new wheel invention to me, right? It seems that the industry standard was set at the 510 vape carts, and now we’re changing again. Is that going to screw other brands that want to get into that style, or is that a unique, proprietary design to them? I don’t know, we need to dig into it though to find out.

Wes Bowles Says: Kind of like Apple switching charger ports on everyone.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, yeah, exactly! Leave it to Apple to fuck us too. [laughs] I mean, I’m addicted to their products, but… okay.

Viral Videos: Drive-Thru Can Opener and Hoarder Madness (35:59)

Wes Bowles Says: I’ve got a couple of clips to show you. I’m putting this up on the bigger screen.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, I’m just going to put this up on a little bit bigger screen. All right, what do we got going on? I see an electric vehicle already, potentially… oh fuck, oh my god! What the fuck? Dude, don’t get out of this car! Oh, what the fuck? Buddy, how the fuck do you not know that happening? It’s like opening a can of tuna!

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh my god, what are they…? So someone’s got a cube van, moving truck type of thing, maybe one of those 27-footers. They had a McDonald’s there, clearly trying to go through a McDonald’s drive-thru. Like, God fucking forbid you park this thing and walk 20 fucking feet to go into the McDonald’s! But this guy or gal has pulled up to the drive-thru and there it is: clearly a height limit. I mean, clearly a height limit that you probably wouldn’t notice if you’re in a car, but it has a canopy of some sort, probably to keep the driver ordering dry during a rainstorm. But right at the top of the truck, it’s dug into it and peeling the top of this moving truck back! It is opening it up like a can of sardines!

Wes Bowles Says: And they just keep driving forward!

Tom Ritchie Says: And they’re not like, “No, stop!” When you’re walking through the woods and you bend a branch and go, “Watch out,” and by the time you can get it out of your mouth the other person’s getting wiped in the face with it… yeah, I don’t even know how you don’t feel that. I mean, I’ve driven one of these, it is rocking the truck! But, hey, listen: kudos to fucking McDonald’s! That thing is made of… that canopy is made of some next-level shit! I thought that would have gotten ripped to the ground. And they’ve probably dealt with this a million times. They’re like, “We’re just going to put a can opener on the end of this fucking thing. Anyone that tries this from now on, we’re just going to take the top of their truck right off.” Don’t drink and drive—how about don’t drive a vehicle beyond your fucking limits? That’s crazy.

Wes Bowles Says: That’s a FailArmy clip, yeah. Wait till you see this next one.

Tom Ritchie Says: All right, here we go. What, what, what? No, that’s not real. No. What? What the fuck? They don’t live there! What? No money to remodel it? Start with a fucking broom and garbage can! Is this from Hoarders? Is this an episode of Hoarders? What the fuck is going on here?

Tom Ritchie Says: Dude, this is bad. There’s so much in her hallway she has to duck down to go through, and she’s not a tall woman. Oh my god, I’ve seen some doozies. This is bad, this is really bad. You can’t tell me you cook—she’s talking about cooking something, she found her special pot, she’s cooking something… you’re not cooking anything there! There’s no way you cook in that! But look at the stove, dude. There’s no way that she cooks in that kitchen. There’s no fucking way.

Tom Ritchie Says: At what point in your life do you go, “Fuck it, I’m done, I’m done, and I’m going to accept this”? You know me, I’m not completely OCD, but I’ve got some tendencies. This is one of these things in life where if you ever visit my house and you see that I’m heading in that direction, can we have a talk, please? I mean, seriously, this is what friends do for other friends: they’ll tell them when something’s going on. Like, “Clean the dog shit up in your backyard,” or “I need a place to sit, can you move some pizza boxes?” You know, that’s about the point when it’s like, “I think maybe you should clean your house up so that your guests can come over.” This is beyond that, and clearly she has no issue with this whatsoever.

Wes Bowles Says: Tanya would kill you if the house looked like that.

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh, she would. Yeah, and it goes both ways. We’re both minor OCD about certain things. And, you know, I fought it for years having a… what do you call them? Roomba. We call it Zumba. I don’t know where that came from, but his name is Zumba Zack, and that’s what he’s named in the app: Zumba Zack. And we fought it for years, and then we got one. And don’t get me wrong, I still run the upright vacuum, all that stuff. But we’ve got supposedly a non-shedding dog that’s going through his puppy-to-regular adult coat and you end up with this white fuzz floating around. So we got one of those. But could you imagine trying to fucking run a Zumba in that house? Or a Roomba? [laughs]

Wes Bowles Says: It wouldn’t make it two inches!

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, it grabs the dust bunnies, right? That’s it. But you still need to do something, and that is wrong. Listen, on that note, why don’t we take a break, and when we get back, we’ll welcome Jeff and Sheri from Smoker Farms. It’s going to be a great show.

Welcoming Jeff & Sheri Aubin of Smoker Farms (43:11)

Tom Ritchie Says: All right. Welcome back to Legacies, Wes. It’s the moment we’ve been waiting for: “Hey there, hey there” man. Now, we don’t do it justice. From what I understand, Jeff and Sheri have been trying to trademark that, so I don’t even know if I’m allowed to use it.

Wes Bowles Says: You’re going to bleep it out—it’ll be “The [bleep] man.”

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, listen, we’re super excited to have Jeff and Sheri Aubin from Smoker Farms join us. It’s been a relationship over the last few months at least, but we’re here with Legacies and we’re happy to have them on. It’s such a great day when I get to connect with you guys, we don’t do it often enough. Obviously we’re all busy, but thanks for joining us from the International Space Station! What the heck do we got going on here?

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] Hey there, hey there!

Tom Ritchie Says: Right? I know what it is, I know what it is. And the funny thing is, Jeff, you actually mentioned this: the grow rooms are so important that that’s where the strongest Wi-Fi is, that’s where Starlink is, correct?

Jeff Aubin Says: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s where the Starlink dish is wired right into the grow room.

Tom Ritchie Says: But just to point out how into the grow this team is: the grow side has better internet connection than the house!

Jeff Aubin Says: Well, yeah, for sure. That’s right. You spend more time in there as well.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, for sure, for sure. You guys just got back from Mexico, right?

Sheri Aubin Says: We did! We were down in Mexico celebrating my birthday.

Tom Ritchie Says: Happy belated! Although we did wish through The High Flyer a very special happy birthday. We try to keep track. We did okay, I think next year will be a little bit better, we’ve got it in our calendars now. So, listen, I need to know: I’ve been to Mexico, I think I was only there on a cruise so you get eight hours and I think it was Cozumel, but I’m a snorkeler, love snorkeling. Best question that I can ask you about Mexico is: how was the weed, man?

Jeff Aubin Says: Oh, man. [laughs] It was actually really good indoor flower that we found down there.

Tom Ritchie Says: Wow, wow. For sure. So in that case, you’re saying legal… would that be under their medical or recreational? Adult-use?

Jeff Aubin Says: No, it’s all black market down there right now.

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh, it’s all black market. Oh, okay. Apologies. Got it. Yeah, wow. And was it outdoor, was it an indoor grow, do you know?

Jeff Aubin Says: It was indoor grown.

Tom Ritchie Says: Indoor? Very cool. Yeah, we’ve been following Mexico for a while. It’s up and down: they’re going to legalize, they’re not going to legalize. And it was the same with Colombia, you know, when we were looking at buying up that market way back in my old life, we thought they would come online sooner than they did. But we know the way things go in countries like Mexico and Colombia, right? There’s a lot of money exchanging hands at a political level that helps push things through. So I’m assuming when you guys went, you weren’t at a resort?

Jeff Aubin Says: No, we rented a private house away from the tourist resorts.

Tom Ritchie Says: Nice! Okay, very cool.

Married in the Grow Room: 30+ Years of Cultivation & Partnership (47:47)

Tom Ritchie Says: Now, what do you do with the grow? My anxiety level—I don’t share this a lot—prepping for a vacation went through the roof. Who am I going to have? Who is going to look after it? I had cameras in the rooms making sure that they’re not overwatering or underwatering. God forbid though, do not put them in a defoliation period where you have to rely on someone else—that’s all you. But how do you guys deal with that?

Jeff Aubin Says: We have a trusted friend who looks after the property, but typically it’s just the two of us running every aspect of the grow.

Tom Ritchie Says: Right. I saw yesterday you were changing the lights, right? But it’s usually the two of you, correct?

Jeff Aubin Says: Correct, yeah. Just the two of us every single day.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah. You’re working together, living together, having a relationship together… I would imagine there’s not a lot you don’t do together.

Sheri Aubin Says: Yeah. Well, what’s the 30-year? What’s the 30-year anniversary gift?

Tom Ritchie Says: What is that craziness about? Linens on this day, gold on this day… what’s the 30-year?

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] Something green!

Tom Ritchie Says: I was just going to say, yeah, it’s something green, maybe in cellophane of some sort, a Mylar bag! Something along the lines of that. [laughs]

Sheri Aubin Says: Exactly. After thirty years together, you just learn how each other operates.

Tom Ritchie Says: Right. Well, that’s good. At least you’re recognizing it. And I think that’s the thing you have to recognize: it’s no different than managing a team of individuals outside of cannabis. It’s: do you have a certain EQ, right? Are you empathetic, where you understand what those individuals are going through? If it’s just relational, in a lot of cases it’s easy to go, “I’m just going to put up a wall, I’m done.” So I mean, it’s a testament to not only your business but your relationship that you guys are able to do that. So kudos on that. That’s really good, guys.

Tom Ritchie Says: You know, there’s a lot of things that I want to cover. Number one, dude: you pull that chain off like no one I know! I could never, and I’m serious. I’m not just trying to blow smoke up your ass. I mean, there’s not many people that can pull off… how many ounces is that fucker? Like, it’s big!

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] It’s an eight-ounce solid gold Cuban link chain. I’ve had it forever.

Tom Ritchie Says: I like it. Now, it’s probably going to be six, seven grand somewhere in there. Yeah, yeah. I like it. Right, right.

Black Market Roots and Street Smarts (52:22)

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, you never hear about the smart criminals, right? I used to say this all the time. And I don’t want to use that as a derogatory term, obviously. But what we were doing pre-legalization, dropping Ps… people talk grey market, listen: it was fucking black market. Illegal activity. But we believed in it, that’s the key. We believed in it. We weren’t lacing these products, they were properly grown, sometimes in living soil, all organic. Yeah, there was shit out there that tarnished it, right? But at the end of the day, technically we were criminals.

Tom Ritchie Says: And you know this, I’ve said this a thousand times: you only ever hear about the dumb criminals, the ones that make headlines because they’ve done something stupid. And I have a funny story with a friend once. You had someone showing up picking up some weed… you know, I’ve become so in tune to calling it cannabis now from the corporate lifestyle and everything we’re going through with Health Canada, but yeah, it’s weed. He showed up to pick up a few pounds of weed, and my friend’s like, “You can leave my driveway now.” He’s like, “Well, what are you talking about?” He said, “Well, first of all, you’re driving a fucking Escalade with wheels that are still spinning! Like, that’s a massive heat score!” And he’s living in a residential neighborhood with a school half a block away, and this guy is pulling up like it’s NASCAR. He’s like, “That’s a heat score, man, and you need to get away from us, right?”

Tom Ritchie Says: So I get why you wouldn’t have… yeah, exactly, right! But I said you pull it off. I’d love to be able to, but I can’t, but you do, and kudos to you for that. So that’s awesome. So I do need to ask: are you serious about someone complaining about your chain in the grow room?

Jeff Aubin Says: Yeah! Someone commented on our Instagram video saying Health Canada doesn’t permit jewelry in cultivation and asked if we had an SOP for wearing a gold chain in the facility!

Tom Ritchie Says: Unbelievable! The audacity of individuals! Like, what are they seeing in a video? They see, like, “You can’t do that!” It was probably a QA person. Have you dealt with many QA people? And I’m not talking just in cannabis, I mean period. They are wired different. I love them, I love them. I’ve sat in QA workshops for an entire weekend with these individuals. They think differently. But I’m wondering if some QA person… maybe you forgot to hire a QA person and they’re like, “I’m going to get him. I’m going after him and his gold chain! How dare he be all over the plant with his chain?” [laughs] But you know, it just shows that there’s obviously different individuals, and the spectrum of individuals that we have to deal with on a daily basis is vastly different.

Jeff Aubin Says: Oh, there’s haters. There’s always haters out there.

Social Media Shadowbans and the Power of Community (56:21)

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, it takes work. It takes a lot of work. And we’re always battling the Meta AI gods or overlords, if you will. Obviously, you know, with Meta they’re very clear about it. I mean, we should never complain because they are clear. If I created something and I said none of this, this, and this, technically it’s mine, right? And so in this case with Meta saying no tobacco, no guns, no banned substances… technically we’re offside, so we get creative.

Tom Ritchie Says: But at the end of the day, some of the shit that I’ve seen on Instagram or Twitter is a million times worse than a grow room! I mean, recently Kevin—good friend Kevin, very close with you guys—his account is suspended. Like, it’s bad enough that cannabis brands do not have opportunities. I mean, we’re doing what we can obviously to help support brands in creating new, interesting, and affordable means, but Meta and Instagram especially is the go-to. And to have your account suspended when you’ve built a loyal following of 2,000, 3,000…

Tom Ritchie Says: I mean, we’re always in trouble, I’m sure you guys are always in trouble. And what happens? The outcome of that is now you’re not recommended, right? So for us in our account at The High Flyer, we cannot be recommended to non-followers. Which means if you’re scrolling through a feed of Reels, you’ll never see our content, right? They’ve blacklisted us.

Tom Ritchie Says: Now the opposite side is—and one of the reasons, or at least the exciting part about Legacies—we need to be as clean as possible, right? We’ll have interviews with individuals like yourselves, and we’re going to talk cannabis all day long, but we’re not posting mugshots. We’re not doing that. You guys have a grow room with big colas that are clearly like, I can pick this stuff up. So in the case of Kevin, when he reached out, he texted me two minutes after and he’s like, “Hey, by the way, my account’s gone.” And I’m like, “What? What the fuck?”

Jeff Aubin Says: Wow, yeah. There’s no getting ahold of anyone at Meta. Once the AI flags your account, it’s just gone into the void.

Tom Ritchie Says: Wes knows this story: Wes is my filter. Everything has to go through Wes. Like, I’ll come up with a creative idea: “I’ve got this, hey, let’s do this!” And he’s like, “No.” That’s literally where it starts, is no. [laughs] And then I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even ask why anymore, it’s just no. And if he says no… yeah, you could hear the slam of the door shut, right?

Tom Ritchie Says: Right, right. Yeah, they managed to beat us into submission one way or another, right? But that’s one of the reasons that we wanted Legacies on the podcast—it was on our roadmap right from the get-go. But it’s another means to be able to tell the story: the story behind a legacy, the story behind Smoker Farms in this case. So we’ll do what we can do, right? And we’re going to have to be careful, but they’re not taking YouTube and Spotify and all that down too, so we have other channels to get this out there.

Jeff Aubin Says: That’s huge. Having independent media platforms like yours is what allows micro-cultivators to actually tell our authentic story to consumers.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah. Well, and I think that there’s the genuineness. Right from the get-go when we started, one of the first accounts related to was your account, right? And Smoker Farms, and the logo, the story, the rawness of it, and the genuineness that was coming through. And I’m like, this is me eight years ago, right? This is me with plywood walls and unpainted steel doors, and just living in your grow—like, you are all about that.

Tom Ritchie Says: And I think that I explained that when I reached out: “Hey, let’s connect, let’s just chat and see if there’s an opportunity to do something here.” And very welcoming, you guys have always been awesome and super supportive. And obviously we’ll do everything we can to support you and the other brands out there that need that support. Because, you know, we joke about the Kumbaya and holding hands, and there is a community, but at the end of the day you are a business and you have a business to run, which means you need sales, right? And we’re not promoting the sale of Smoker Farms product on the Legacies program, so don’t shut us down, Twitter! Just kidding, screw them. [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: But I think the genuineness that was there, that’s what everyone can relate to. And again, they may never try your product, but if they can get the swag, they feel like they can relate. Maybe one day I’ll be able to own a Porsche, that’s always been a dream of mine; for now, I just get to wear the t-shirt, right? So maybe that’s the story with other individuals: “I can enjoy their product, or at least I can enjoy their swag or their merch.”

Growing Up Legacy: Early Hustle and Entering Legal Cannabis (1:03:03)

Tom Ritchie Says: Do you guys have any kids in the family business? Do you have children?

Jeff Aubin Says: No kids, just our bird! That’s why we can dedicate 24/7 to the grow rooms without distractions.

Tom Ritchie Says: Okay, all right! Wow, no doubt. Oh my god, you need to get them in the grow room! Why couldn’t you have given me that advice 20-plus years ago? [laughs] “Kids, you’re out, I’m getting a bird.”

Tom Ritchie Says: So you guys, you’re not originally from British Columbia, right?

Jeff Aubin Says: I was born in Kelowna, B.C., but moved around before coming back out west.

Tom Ritchie Says: Okay, very cool. So did you chase the girl to the West Coast, or did you meet after you’d moved out?

Sheri Aubin Says: We actually met back in Ontario when we were teenagers, and then we made the move out to B.C. together.

Tom Ritchie Says: All righty, that’s a good story! No doubt. So you moved to B.C… how old were you during that time?

Jeff Aubin Says: I was around 18 or 19. I’d already been hustling weed since grade eight when I was 14 or 15 years old.

Tom Ritchie Says: Hanging out at the corner, yeah. Yeah, he was for sure, Sheri! He was 100%, you can tell! [laughs] Well, that kind of captures it, because I was going to ask what career before. But I mean, if you’re in it in grade eight, you know, 15, 16 years old, this guy has been in the cannabis industry for a long time.

Jeff Aubin Says: I was an air traffic controller before this!

Tom Ritchie Says: Oh man! You want fucking stress? That’s one of the most stressful jobs there is! You think doing this is stressful? What do we need? Jesus! Have you watched the movie Airplane!? That’s like Wolf of Wall Street shit! “How much do you make a month? I made about 80,000 last month. Fuck you, I quit my job right now if that’s what you make! Show me a check, show me a check!” [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: Listen, it wasn’t that much different with a friend of mine, not that much older. At the time I had wrapped up school, I was doing a bunch of different things. He invited me over, he showed me his garage at the time—not very big, a two-car garage. I think he had ten lights in there, high-pressure sodium at the time. And I fell in love the second I walked in, right? Cannabis use since the age of 15… back then it was a big thing: hash oil, and coming up with creative ways to spread oil onto a paper and roll the perfect doob.

Tom Ritchie Says: But I walked in and I was sold. I’m like, “Okay, how do I get into this?” And he’s like, “Well, let’s go get you a license.” And I’m like, “What do you mean a license? What are you talking about?” He said, “Kind of a prescription, but Health Canada allows this and this.” So early on, MMAR, and away we go. And I know the transition at the time from MMAR to ACMPR to the Cannabis Act: unless I moved, I was okay, right? And it was John Conroy, right? If not for John Conroy, chances are we wouldn’t be where we are today. So shout-out to John Conroy. I mean, your work paved the way to the industry that we have now.

Tom Ritchie Says: But it’s not all roses, right? Like the transition, Jeff, I’ve heard you say before: “Christ, if I had known what it was going to be going through and the ups and downs, chances are I may not have.” Let’s talk about that a little bit. So you guys originally, in your legacy days, you had a different grow in a different location, is that correct?

Jeff Aubin Says: Yeah, yeah. Complete underground black market grow in a basement bunker before transitioning into the legal medical MMAR designated grower system.

The Realities of Legal Cultivation and Regulatory Hurdles (1:10:35)

Tom Ritchie Says: Right, as a designated grower. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Well, it certainly needs change. The regulations need reform, we know this. You know, there was recently a committee that’s been assembled to assess, and where that goes, who knows? Does it fully represent a good cross-segment of the market? TBD, right? We’ll see.

Tom Ritchie Says: I think the most interesting thing that I’ve seen as of late… I don’t know if you follow David Brown’s StratCann? That’s my go-to, he’s incredible. But I think the report was that bulk purchasers or processors—I forget who the middle player is—basically the CRA has now given them instruction to garnish or withhold payment on any of these producers that are delinquent on excise tax!

Tom Ritchie Says: Like, come on! I personally have never seen that happen. I’ve seen it from an employer where they would put out an order and garnish wages. But regardless, this is, at least from what I understand, unprecedented. And if that’s the case, to me it just feels like an overreach of authority and power.

Jeff Aubin Says: It’s crippling for micro-cultivators. If processors hold our cash flow, we can’t pay power bills or nutrient suppliers.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, I’m fearful but also hopeful that they’ll be able to figure this out, because as a producer, you guys rely on getting paid. You have utilities, bills, nutrients, all your vendors, everything. Not to mention, you feel like a true farmer, right? Where it’s like, “Okay, well, I’ve paid everything, now I’ve got a little bit of money left for bird feed, right?” [laughs] And we’ll have to see what the outcome is of this, but it’s something we want to pay attention to obviously, because it’s going to put a lot of these companies offside. I think it’s going to sink them.

Jeff Aubin Says: In this game, no one is guaranteed success. You have to stay lean, stay focused, and produce the absolute highest quality every single crop.

Tom Ritchie Says: No one is guaranteed success. And the thing is, at least you realize that. There are individuals that think, “I’ll never fail, everyone loves my product.” Newsflash, right?

Life in Kootenay Boundary & Brand Origins (1:15:39)

Tom Ritchie Says: But it’s not all business. We see quite a bit where you guys are having fun, right? You’re in a great spot. I mean, I don’t know what the hell is going on—it seems like they’re rationing sunshine to us in Ontario lately! We’ll get half a day and then three days of darkness and rain. Maybe hot, maybe cold. This morning it’s like plus-five degrees, you peak out and it’s snowing again. But you guys have some fun. Where you’re located, you’re able to take off in the side-by-side if you want. What else do you do for fun outside of that? I mean, obviously you’ve got book club and all these other really cool things, but it seems as though you spend a lot of time with friends and family just having fun and enjoying your surroundings.

Jeff Aubin Says: We’re right in the mountains in the Kootenays. We hop on the side-by-side, go trail riding, hang out with friends, and enjoy the nature out here.

Tom Ritchie Says: For sure, you would certainly need that. So on that note, regardless of season, we’ll find Jeff… I mean, right now you’ve got a zip-up on, but typically we’re dealing in tanks and shorts! And that’s your thing, but it’s not that you’re choosing to do it as a statement, that’s just your thing.

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] That’s what you need when you’re working in the heat of the grow rooms all day!

Tom Ritchie Says: But your outside is your inside, which is tropical at a beautiful 70-plus degrees with perfect relative humidity! So anytime you want to be tropical, you just open that door!

Tom Ritchie Says: Now, I caught somewhere that… love the logo. It was inspired by your trip to Thailand, is that correct?

Jeff Aubin Says: It was inspired by traveling through Southeast Asia, seeing the traditional monkey motifs and tropical vibe.

Tom Ritchie Says: Southeast Asia, okay! So your branding, then… I caught this, and I know this because we’ve been together for a while, but Smoker Road: is Smoker Farms based on Smoker Road? Is it something you toyed with? Did you name the road, or did they go, “Hold on, Jeff Aubin’s coming in, we’re going to name the road after His Majesty”? [laughs]

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] No, the road was actually already named Smoker Road when we bought the property! It was literally fate staring right at us.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah! Well, at least it was a good idea that stuck! Because typically what happens is you get into a doob or a blunt or a drink, and your ideas are always the best at that point in time, right? Until you wake up the next day and it’s like, “Yeah, maybe that wasn’t a good idea after all. I’m putting it all in Bitcoin!” [laughs] Fresh ideas—just don’t accidentally crumple it up like a Seinfeld episode: “Did you throw that away? I think the cleaning lady threw it away!” [laughs]

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] We wrote it down and kept it!

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, oh I bet, I bet! And it’s funny because we see the happy “Hey there, hey there” man side of Jeff on social media, but on the other side there’s got to be: “Are you fucking kidding me again with this shit?!” Like, seriously. I don’t know where your temper level is, but mine can sometimes go through the roof, and if I’m outside the neighbors will hear it. Sheri, go up and ring the bell instead: “Jeff, just go do something different.” [laughs]

Sheri Aubin Says: That’s the way it should be! When things get intense, you step in and balance each other out.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, that’s that tenured relationship: you know the boundaries and when to step in and when not to, right?

Craft Collaboration vs Corporate Suits (1:23:01)

Tom Ritchie Says: It’s funny that you mention that, because Wes and I have talked about this a lot: there’s a drastic difference or spectrum of cannabis companies. You have certain cannabis companies that are just all about themselves, that’s it. There’s no collaboration, there’s no community. They’re few and far between, I think, but they do exist. Where on the other end, you have cannabis brands and companies like yourselves at Smoker Farms that are willing to go out of their way to collaborate and build each other up.

Tom Ritchie Says: How do you see that? When you look at that, what are you seeing yourselves? When you see the standoffish-type brands that are like, “No,” typically you can tell they’re in it for the money. They’re owned by a large corporation of some sort, there’s probably a lot of suits involved. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I’ve been there myself, but there’s a board of directors, mandates, and EBITDA, and all this shit involved. Where on the other side, the micros and craft companies are very supportive of each other. They’re fine to promote each other and collaborate. What’s your view on all of that?

Jeff Aubin Says: We’re all in this together. Craft growers aren’t each other’s competition; the illicit market and giant corporate producers are. If a fellow craft grower succeeds, it lifts the entire reputation of micro-cultivation in Canada.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, I’ve seen your support through the industry, like Diamonds by Douglas. You guys were quick to jump on and ensure that he’s getting supported. When you guys transitioned in, what kind of lifeline did you have? What support did you have moving into it? I know originally Joint Venture Craft had helped, is that correct?

Jeff Aubin Says: Yeah, Joint Venture Craft helped us with initial processing and navigation through provincial boards early on.

Tom Ritchie Says: That’s great. You love your Dosatrons! I mean, the amount that you promote Dosatron, they should just be giving you those $200 repair kits! Maybe we’ll send them this: if you’re looking for a spokesperson for Dosatron, he’s the guy! [laughs]

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] Dosatron fertigation has saved our backs! It meters nutrients with precision, water-powered, no electronics failing.

Tom Ritchie Says: It’s a stark difference from how you probably used to do it, right? Mixing nutrients: “Yeah, that’s the right amount… oh shit, now look what I did, I’ve got to start over.” It was a nightmare! I’d use our own water—B.C. probably had access to a lot nicer water than I was starting with—strip it down, start at seven, go up, go down depending on what your feeding regime is at the time. “Shit, I just spilled $40 worth of nutrients, we’re going to start over again!” So I’m sure the Dosatron certainly helps with that, you don’t have to deal with all that shit anymore. If you had a bad back or bad knees, do it and you’re doomed—go home, ice pack.

Cultivar Focus: Master Kush Ultra and Market Dynamics (1:30:41)

Tom Ritchie Says: So that leads me to a thought that… I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but we’ve got to answer the question for the individuals that are listening: why Master Kush Ultra? Why only one cultivar? Why one strain? You are familiar with the MK Ultra tests that were done way back in the ’80s—that’s where, in some cases, the MK Ultra you grow puts you in a very similar state! Catatonic state, questioning life. [laughs]

Jeff Aubin Says: [laughs] We chose Master Kush Ultra because it’s a true heavy-hitting legacy indica that we perfected over decades. We didn’t want to chase every hype flavor of the month; we wanted to be known for having the best MK Ultra in the country.

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, well, don’t change now! No, you can’t go changing now. I’ve grown Master Kush, but I’ve never grown Master Kush Ultra—obviously a little bit of difference in lineage. And there’s a lot of cultivars or strains, depending on which terminology is acceptable to you. But back in those days—and I would assume that it’s still somewhat similar today—price and potency were obviously driving a lot of sales.

Tom Ritchie Says: And what we see, even just on two or three conversations we had with brands yesterday talking about breaking into Ontario and distribution… I’m pretty sure there’s a lot more loyalty West Coast and East Coast than there is in Ontario. Meaning if I enjoy a brand or two or three brands, those are my go-to brands, right? Those are the ones that I’m going to revisit. I know it’s quality, it’s time and time again, I know the effects that I’m going to get. Where on the other hand, in Ontario, there’s a lot of selection. In Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, they still have papers you flip through to find out what their menus are like! Provincially run, you flip through papers—not a great experience.

Tom Ritchie Says: But in Ontario, because there’s so many dispensaries and a big population, you walk into any dispensary in a small town of 50,000 and chances are that retailer has over 300 SKUs! How many in the pre-roll category? But we do typically see a lot more loyalty in B.C. when it comes to the products individuals are buying. I can back that part up with data: consistent sales time and time again.

Tom Ritchie Says: But nowadays, with price and potency driving buying decisions, would that affect your next move into a new cultivar or strain? Because, Jeff, remember: back then it was potency and yield, that’s all we cared about moving product into the black market. “If I’m growing and it’s risk versus reward, this better give me a ton of cannabis—three to four pounds per light or it’s just not worth growing.” I was never hitting that—two and a half to three pounds per light with a thousand-watt high-pressure sodium. But is that a deciding factor nowadays, or is it: “No, I want something that’s got the profile I’m looking for with the cannabinoid content I’m looking for”? How do you decide on the next cultivar?

Jeff Aubin Says: We look at terpene profile, bag appeal, and consistency first. If you chase yield over quality in craft, you end up with return-to-vendor (RTV) shipments from the provincial boards.

Tom Ritchie Says: Right. Return to vendor, RTVs. Do you know how hard it is to get your hands on that in Ontario especially? Part of it is because of the packaging and the distribution, it’s very difficult to search for in menus. And Kevin, as close as we are, I still haven’t tried it. We love Royal Harvest, we love Kevin, we love everything you guys do and the community you guys have built together and the support you show for one another.

Tom Ritchie Says: For me, I loved Chem Dog. I loved the original Chem Dogs that used to be around. The potency was there. For a young grower trying to cut his teeth in the cannabis industry, the Kushes especially—like the Master Kush Ultra—were a little more forgiving for me, so I could make a few more mistakes. But I would love to see a resurgence of the original OG strains, the landraces that really shaped the industry pre-1900s: Hash Plant, Afghani Kush, Thai Stick, Northern Lights, Acapulco Gold.

Tom Ritchie Says: But is there an attachment that people end up having? Like, I know that Master Kush Ultra sells out by Smoker Farms, right? If you could grow more, would that sell out too, or would you have to start introducing others? Because there’s always something about limited supply: “I can’t get my hands on it,” it creates more demand. If you had a standard license and you were producing only Master Kush Ultra, do you think it would still sell out?

Jeff Aubin Says: Absolutely. Every harvest sells out before it even leaves the cure room because our consumers know exactly what they are getting every single time.

Micro-Cultivation Bottlenecks and Product Expansion (1:40:09)

Tom Ritchie Says: And that’s one of the challenges that we see with micro-licenses, which are craft through and through: everyone wants it, but they can’t keep up with the supply and demand of it, right? So even if you wanted to… because I know some of the questions that the OCS would ask are: “How much can you produce? Is it going to become a general listing or a flow-through item?” Because the retailers need to be able to ensure stock quantities. You end up with a loyal customer base at a retail location, they consistently come in because you have Smoker Farms: “Oh, we’re out. We’re out.” And if you’re consistently out, they either pivot to another brand or that retailer loses a customer.

Tom Ritchie Says: So I wonder if craft would do a lot better, but they just can’t keep up because of the restrictions of the 200-square-meter canopy space that you’re allowed to have, right? It’ll be interesting to see how some of that changes or unfolds over the next six months or so.

Tom Ritchie Says: So what’s the struggle with that right now? Because I’ve seen a few times you talk about “ask a retailer,” creating demand for the product, but where on that product launch are you listing?

Jeff Aubin Says: We’re currently available in B.C., Alberta, and Ontario through flow-through, and we’re expanding into cured resin all-in-one vapes and infused pre-rolls with our MK Ultra biomass.

Tom Ritchie Says: Looking forward to that! I’m not a big vape guy, but I like keeping one on hand for when I just need quick, right? And I’ve even gotten lazy where now I’m buying a lot of pre-rolls. In B.C. culture you guys still spin a lot of your own doobs up, but in Ontario the pre-roll category is on fire! Why? I think we’re more or less lazy—we’re on island time in Ontario for some reason, just lazy! [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: But what formats do you currently have in flower, and then let’s talk pre-rolls?

Jeff Aubin Says: We offer 3.5g whole craft flower, 3×0.5g pre-roll packs, and we’re dropping our single-source MK Ultra live resin vape carts next.

Tom Ritchie Says: Beautiful, beautiful. And what provinces are you currently in?

Jeff Aubin Says: British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario!

Tom Ritchie Says: Very cool, okay. Isn’t that crazy? Please figure it out! If anyone is listening, can someone please sort this out and bring the vapes to the people?

Mental Health, The 8-Minute Rule, and Closing Giveaway (1:45:19)

Tom Ritchie Says: Wes, is there anything we want to show Jeff and Sheri from our previous segment before the break?

Wes Bowles Says: You’ll cringe, you’ll cringe!

Tom Ritchie Says: Just pretend it didn’t happen, no one knows! I love the commentary from the people filming it: “No, babe, please back up! Don’t… what are you doing?!” So the question is: weed or booze, which caused it? Stupidity is another one. It’s one of those ones where there’s too many people watching, “I can’t get out of the vehicle, I just need to go, I’m going, I’m going!”

Sheri Aubin Says: [covers face, laughing] Oh my gosh, I can’t even look at this!

Tom Ritchie Says: Yeah, Sheri’s covering her face already! She’s like, “I just can’t even look!” “Come over for dinner, hey Jeff, come on over for dinner with you, don’t worry, we’re cooking up cockroaches!” [laughs] Yeah, I can’t even watch anymore of that one, it gives me the icks.

Tom Ritchie Says: Well, and that’s the thing: it truly is, at the end of the day, a mental health issue. And it’s nice that the world is becoming more accepting of mental health issues and there’s more channels now. People are more aware and at least open about it when you’re not having a good day.

Tom Ritchie Says: Are you familiar with Simon Sinek at all? Kind of a coach, an entrepreneur, big on TED Talks. But he was talking with a friend of his, and he had this really cool concept that I loved: come up with a code word with a friend. There’s ones where you’re at a party and it’s like, “Listen, Jeff, if I want to leave early I’m going to come and say ‘octopus,’ okay?” And that just means it’s time to leave.

Tom Ritchie Says: Simon was saying develop a code word with your closest friends that if I text you out of the blue and say, “I need eight minutes”—specifically eight minutes—it means I’m not in a good spot and I need to talk. And you as a friend receiving that, you stop every fucking thing going on in your life. Everything. Doesn’t matter what you’re doing: you’re driving, you call them; you’re in a meeting, you stop. It’s an emergency: “I’ve got a friend not in a good spot.” And I love that.

Tom Ritchie Says: I thought, man, that’s something that I should work towards employing, because we need to be open, right? There’s passive asking and aggressive asking. As men, we do this a lot: “You good?” “Yeah, I’m good.” But meanwhile there’s shit going on inside that you need to get out and discuss. Whereas: “Hey, I need eight minutes.” I thought, man, that is powerful. So if I ever get a text from Wes, or I’ll open the invitation to you guys as well: if I ever get a text that says, “Hey Tom, I need eight minutes,” I will stop everything I am doing and I’ll call you. That’s my promise to you guys.

Jeff Aubin Says: That’s huge, Tom. Having that kind of support keeps people out of dark spots in this intense industry. You’re the best.

Tom Ritchie Says: Listen guys, this has been incredible. So honored to have you on our maiden flight. Wes, is there anything we’re missing? Oh hold on, hold the phone, we’re forgetting something! Let’s give something away! It’s still winter in some places for other people, Jeff, right? It may be a balmy 76 or 78 degrees in your rooms, but it ain’t everywhere! [laughs]

Tom Ritchie Says: So let’s have Jeff and Sheri pick what we’re going to give away. From their collection we’ve got mugs, tanks, zip-ups, and hoodies… you guys pick.

Sheri Aubin Says: Let’s give a zip-up away!

Jeff Aubin Says: Yeah, the Smoker Farms zip-up hoodie!

Tom Ritchie Says: All right, let’s give a zip-up away! And what we’ll do is we’ll break this clip out for Instagram. We’re going to give individuals 48 hours from time of posting. The rules: you have to be following Smoker Farms, you have to be following The High Flyer, and you’re listening to this right now on the Legacies Podcast so you should probably be following us, and tag a friend! Tag a friend, let’s get you entered to win a Smoker Farms zip-up!

Tom Ritchie Says: We’ll announce the winners together and make sure everyone’s got a fair chance to enter and win that awesome swag. And for anyone looking for other Smoker Farms swag, they can find The High Flyer aka your source for licensed cannabis brand apparel. Jeff, Sheri, it’s so great to connect with you guys anytime, whether we’re recording it or not. Now you need to know that when we finally make it to B.C., chances are there’s a camera rolling somewhere. It’ll be our mission to make sure we stop by Smoker Road. Thanks, guys, we appreciate it.

Jeff Aubin Says: Thank you, Tom! Appreciate you guys having us on.

Sheri Aubin Says: Thanks, Tom and Wes!

Tom Ritchie Says: There you go. Whoa, that’s it, I’m fired—Jeff’s in! [laughs] Nice guys, incredible couple. Writing an SOP over a gold chain, are you kidding me? That’s a first for me! I’ve helped write SOPs and I couldn’t imagine writing one about that. But just the passion they have for the industry, the plant… true legacy. And that’s what we do here at Legacies.

Tom Ritchie Says: Smoker Farms zip-up… I don’t even have one of those yet! I always see everyone making these purchases online, we see the orders coming in and I’m like, I don’t even have that yet. First episode in the books and many more to come. We’re going to drop a new episode every week of Legacies. You can find clips throughout Instagram, obviously be on Twitter, we’ll be everywhere. Check us out wherever you find your podcasts: The High Flyer aka the dope store online. Take care!