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Episod 29
02:03:18

The Work Isn’t Done with Shane Morris | Episode 29

In Episode 29, Tom and Wes discuss genetics patenting, regulatory hurdles for natural health products, and interview Dr. Shane Morris of Morris & Associates.
EPISODE SUMMARY

Short Summary

In this educational episode of the Legacies Podcast, hosts Tom Ritchie and Wesley Bowles discuss agricultural genetics patents and federal regulatory policy. They evaluate the market implications of Aurora Cannabis’s patent on autoflowering genetics, explaining how crossing ruderalis with THC/CBD dominant cultivars enables flowering based on age rather than light cycle changes, while analyzing enforcement challenges due to genetic drift from lighting and nutrients. They review Health Canada’s proposed natural health product regulations, discussing how proposed pharmaceutical-style compliance models impact wellness operators (Stewart Farms, Madge & Mercer, Wildwood Labs). They also evaluate the retail barriers of selling non-intoxicating CBD wellness products alongside high-THC products in adult-use dispensaries, comparing it to international developments in Japan, Australia, and the EU.

Later, they welcome Dr. Shane Morris, founder of Morris & Associates Consulting and former Chief Product/Innovation Officer at Aurora. Drawing on his PhD in plant science and policy work at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) and the Privy Council Office, Dr. Morris explains the mechanics of regulatory drafting. He details his leadership in the Cannabis Health Product Coalition (CHPC), representing natural health operators pushing for a mainstream retail pathway (pharmacies and health stores) for CBD, and discusses corporate commercial strategies in regulated markets.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Intro (00:00)

Tom Ritchie Says: Hey, what’s going on, everyone? Check out what’s coming up this week on Legacies.

Tom Ritchie Says: Health Canada, get off your ass and do something, because this is getting completely out of control!

Dr. Shane Morris Says: When I got on the call and heard inspectors were asking for lasers underneath the tables, I was like, ‘No, what the fuck are you doing?’

Tom Ritchie Says: Some of these prize stud horses cost millions of dollars just to breed—we’re talking After Eight for BC!

Welcome to Legacies: Powered by Breadstack (00:41)

Tom Ritchie Says: Welcome to Legacies! I’m your host, Tom Ritchie, joined by an under-the-weather Wesley Bowles today. Wes, I feel terrible dragging you into the studio when you’re feeling sick.

Wesley Bowles Says: It’s been a rough couple of days, I won’t lie, but I’m here!

Tom Ritchie Says: Let’s remind everyone that Legacies is powered by Breadstack. Retailers, it’s time to upgrade your e-commerce and local SEO. Have you seen the video testimonials pouring in? Retailers are seeing 30% increases in sales.

Tom Ritchie Says: We recently published an article with Breadstack discussing how legacy illicit websites operate with extreme technological sophistication. When unregulated operators aren’t bound by strict compliance constraints, their user experience and checkout funnels are lightning fast.

Wesley Bowles Says: A buddy and I used to joke: you never hear about the smart criminals because they never get caught!

The Illness Wave, Home Remedies & Fighting Germs (02:11)

Tom Ritchie Says: How are you feeling today, Wes? Are we dealing with a fever, COVID, or something else?

Wesley Bowles Says: I took two COVID tests and both were negative, but it feels like when I caught COVID back around Christmas 2020. Severe body aches and head pressure, but no stomach issues. You sent me half the pharmacy yesterday!

Tom Ritchie Says: My wife is a holistic nutritionist, so I’m a huge believer in natural health products—vitamin D, B-complex, zinc, echinacea. Kids are petri dishes; they bring sickness home from school, sleep for three hours, and bounce back while infecting the entire household. I had to Instacart you an emergency care package!

Tom Ritchie Says: Today we have Dr. Shane Morris joining us. Shane loves ruffling feathers with his evidence-based perspectives, and he isn’t afraid to call a spade a spade.

First Day Back in Parliament & Political Frustrations (05:06)

Tom Ritchie Says: Did you catch the return of Parliament with Pierre Poilievre and Justin Trudeau?

Wesley Bowles Says: I saw clips of the Conservative frontbench grilling Chrystia Freeland.

Tom Ritchie Says: Poilievre completely dismantled Trudeau during Question Period. Many Canadians voted for Trudeau back in 2015 based on the promise of cannabis legalization, but over the last decade, we have seen regulatory stagnation, punitive tax regimes, and an air of bureaucratic arrogance toward taxpayers.

Wesley Bowles Says: When ministers brush off direct economic questions with scripted non-answers, it alienates the public.

Aurora’s Autoflower Patent & The Slippery Slope of Seed IP (12:00)

Tom Ritchie Says: Did you see the headline on StratCann regarding Aurora securing a patent related to autoflowering genetics?

Wesley Bowles Says: I’ve heard the term autoflower frequently, but what does it mean from a breeding perspective?

Tom Ritchie Says: Photoperiod cannabis requires an environmental shift in light cycles—flipping from 18 hours of light down to 12/12—to trigger the flowering phase. Autoflowers, which originate from Cannabis ruderalis genetics adapted to short northern summers, begin flowering automatically based on biological maturity regardless of the photoperiod schedule.

Tom Ritchie Says: When massive corporations patent breeding methodologies or specific genetic cultivars, it raises major concerns across the community. Look at agriculture giant Monsanto patenting seeds—if drift or cross-pollination occurs onto neighboring farms, legal battles follow. If Aurora licenses these patented autoflower cultivars to other LPs, does it create an anti-competitive genetic bottleneck?

Wesley Bowles Says: If a cultivar has a minor genetic shift or terpene variation, where is the legal boundary on intellectual property?

Tom Ritchie Says: Exactly. Environmental factors, nutrient regimes, and lighting cause natural phenotypic variation. We need Ryan Lee on the show to dive into cannabis genetics and IP protection.

Health Canada’s Inaction on Cannabis Health Products (23:21)

Tom Ritchie Says: This week in Toronto, the Canadian Health Food Association (CHFA) is hosting their massive natural health products expo. It highlights the absurdity of current Canadian regulations.

Tom Ritchie Says: Under the Cannabis Act, non-intoxicating CBD products cannot be sold in natural health food stores or mainstream pharmacies without a cannabis retail license. Instead, senior citizens and athletes looking for joint recovery must enter adult-use dispensaries, where CBD wellness products sit beside high-THC concentrates.

Tom Ritchie Says: Meanwhile, health food stores sell hemp seed oil products labeled with cannabis leaves that contain zero actual cannabinoids, confusing consumers. Health Canada’s Scientific Advisory Committee recommended creating an over-the-counter Cannabis Health Products (CHP) pathway years ago, yet bureaucrats continue stalling while compliant wellness brands bleed capital.

Tom Ritchie Says: Let’s bring on Dr. Shane Morris to break down how policy actually gets made in Ottawa!

Dr. Shane Morris: Bureaucracy, Privy Council & Regulatory Science (31:32)

Tom Ritchie Says: Welcome to Legacies, Shane! It’s great to finally get you on the show.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Thanks for having me on, Tom and Wes! And please, just ‘Shane’—no one calls me doctor except my younger brother when he wants to wind me up.

Tom Ritchie Says: You love engaging in robust regulatory debates on social media. Where does that analytical background come from?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: I’m Irish, so culturally, unless someone is physically bleeding, it isn’t an argument—it’s just a robust conversation! I focus on playing the ball, not the player.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: My background is where science intersects with regulatory policy. I started at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) dealing with frontline operations during crises like BSE (mad cow disease) and avian influenza. I then moved to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, and the Privy Council Office / Treasury Board Secretariat.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: At the Privy Council Office, my team served as the cabinet challenge function. Whenever Health Canada or Environment Canada wanted to introduce new regulations, our team evaluated their regulatory impact assessments and briefed federal cabinet ministers on the scientific and economic evidence.

Leaving Government to Build Hydropothecary in 2015 (39:03)

Dr. Shane Morris Says: In 2015, while working in government, a colleague mentioned her husband was having difficulty navigating Health Canada’s licensing process for a medical cannabis startup. Her husband was SĂ©bastien St-Louis, founder of Hydropothecary (which later became HEXO).

Dr. Shane Morris Says: With my PhD in plant science and deep background in federal regulatory systems, I helped them establish their quality management systems in Gatineau. I took a formal leave of absence from the civil service. People in government thought I was having a midlife crisis, but I saw a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to build an evidence-based medical cannabis industry that could replace the harms of criminalization.

The Rush to Legalization & The Origins of Deliverology (45:30)

Tom Ritchie Says: How did Canada go from the medical MMPR framework to full adult-use legalization so rapidly between 2015 and 2018?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: When the Trudeau government took office in 2015, they implemented ‘Deliverology’—a centralized project management framework borrowed from the UK and Ontario governments to track core election platform promises.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Dedicated public servants like Eric Costen pulled consecutive all-nighters alongside paired English and French legal drafters to write the Cannabis Regulations. But once the Cannabis Act was passed on October 17, 2018, the federal mindset shifted to: ‘We delivered the legislation, the file is complete, put it on the shelf.’

Dr. Shane Morris Says: A new industry is like an infant—the first few years require continuous policy iteration and regulatory refinement. Health Canada treated it as a completed mandate rather than an evolving marketplace.

The Early Days of Health Canada Facility Inspections (51:45)

Tom Ritchie Says: What were facility inspections like during the MMPR and ACMPR eras?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: In 2015 and 2016, Health Canada inspectors from the Regulatory Operations and Enforcement Branch (ROEB) would arrive unannounced every month and spend three hours physically hand-counting individual plants!

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Because our Hydropothecary facility was 20 minutes from Ottawa, we hosted delegations of politicians, judges, and inspectors to educate them. Many inspectors came from sterile pharmaceutical injectable environments in Montreal and struggled to understand agricultural greenhouse realities. Inspectors in BC were asking for metal tables while inspectors in Quebec approved cinder blocks and wooden pallets.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Licensed producers started bi-weekly coordination calls to share inspection notes. When an inspector asked for absurd requirements—like motion-sensing lasers under grow tables—we could cite operational precedents from across the country.

The Story Behind the ‘Morris Amendment’ (1:00:00)

Tom Ritchie Says: What is an ‘observation’ during a Health Canada audit, and what is the story behind the ‘Morris Amendment’?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: An observation is merely an inspector’s professional opinion that a process deviates from written regulations; it does not automatically mean a product safety failure.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: One month, I submitted our monthly tracking report on the 16th instead of the 15th due to a family emergency. The inspector issued a formal observation. Knowing regulatory law, I challenged it: the Cannabis Regulations did not specify the 15th as a statutory deadline, meaning the condition was ultra vires (beyond their legal authority).

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Health Canada had to retract the observation. However, when they drafted the next regulatory amendment under the ACMPR, they officially codified the 15th of each month into federal law! Bureaucrats in Ottawa jokingly referred to it as the ‘Morris Amendment.’

Demystifying QA: Risk-Based Compliance vs. Bloated Overhead (1:05:45)

Tom Ritchie Says: Quality Assurance Persons (QAPs) often bear immense stress inside licensed producers.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Many early QAPs came from high-risk pharmaceutical manufacturing where the hazard profile of an injectable oncology drug requires extreme sterility. Applying those same standards to a 10mg cannabis gummy creates bloated, uncompetitive operational costs.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Quality is an organizational culture, not a single individual. When executive management treats the QAP as a disposable scapegoat for operational mistakes, QA teams respond by creating overly defensive, redundant SOPs that inflate COGS.

Innovation & Subversive Product Development at Aurora (1:14:00)

Tom Ritchie Says: During your time as Chief Product Officer at Aurora, you launched several industry-first product formats.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: We launched the first legal peppermint sublingual spray in 2017, the first ingestible capsule kits, and grandfathered 510 vape cartridges two days prior to Cannabis 2.0 regulations by utilizing screw-top containers for ingestible extracts.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Working alongside legacy masters like Dieter MacPherson allowed us to blend traditional cultivation passion with institutional scientific rigor.

Organigram Jolts: Challenging Health Canada in Court (1:18:36)

Tom Ritchie Says: What were your thoughts on Organigram challenging Health Canada’s reclassification of their ‘Jolts’ lozenges?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Organigram did something historic: they took Health Canada to Federal Court for judicial review and won. In food, beverage, and pharma, challenging regulatory overreach in court is standard practice. The cannabis sector must stop operating in fear of its regulator.

The Cannabis Health Product Coalition & The Battle for Over-the-Counter CBD (1:22:28)

Tom Ritchie Says: You lead the Cannabis Health Products Coalition (CHPC). Why is the deregulation of CBD into natural health channels taking so long?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: In 2016, the federal Task Force recommended creating a separate pathway for non-intoxicating cannabinoids. In 2022, Health Canada’s own Scientific Advisory Committee confirmed that CBD is safe for over-the-counter wellness use without medical supervision at doses up to 200mg/day.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Licensed producers pay a mandatory 2.3% regulatory fee on all gross revenue—generating tens of millions annually for Health Canada. Yet bureaucrats claim a lack of resources, punting the file to the Natural Health Products directorate, which is focused on nicotine pouches. Health Canada recently promised another white paper consultation by late 2024, effectively kicking the can down the road until the next federal election.

The $1 Billion Market Opportunity: Unlocking Natural Health Channels (1:34:01)

Dr. Shane Morris Says: A study by the University of Ottawa and the CHFA estimated that establishing an over-the-counter CBD framework in pharmacies and health food stores represents a $1 billion domestic market opportunity within five years.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: We already use tiered regulatory models for minerals like iron—you can buy low-dose iron fortified in cereal, moderate-dose iron supplements on grocery shelves, higher doses behind the pharmacy counter, and clinical doses by prescription. We can implement the exact same tiered framework for CBD.

Global Trade & The Threat of Canadian Stagnation (1:40:38)

Dr. Shane Morris Says: While Canada drags its feet, jurisdictions across the UK, European Union, Australia, and Japan are establishing clear novel food and wellness regulations for CBD. Canadian hemp farmers and processors have the infrastructure to lead global supply chains, but restrictive domestic regulations prevent them from scaling international exports.

Chain Question (Part 1): Who Would Shane Morris Hire and Fire? (1:45:34)

Tom Ritchie Says: Last week, Jaime Lipowitz from High Buds Club left our chain question: ‘If you could hire anyone in the cannabis industry right now, who would it be and why? And if you could fire anyone, who would it be?’

Dr. Shane Morris Says: If I were building a new commercial enterprise, my immediate hire would be Jim McMillan, former Chief Commercial Officer at HEXO. Jim is a seasoned, pragmatic executive who executes commercial strategy flawlessly.

Critiquing OCS Inefficiencies and Retail Pay-to-Play Data Fees (1:48:33)

Dr. Shane Morris Says: As for who I would fire—I would overhaul the institutional structure of the Ontario Cannabis Store (OCS). While the OCS returns dividends to the Ministry of Finance, the operational waste, website listing friction, and supply chain inefficiencies place an immense financial burden on licensed producers.

Dr. Shane Morris Says: Furthermore, I would eliminate predatory retail ‘data fee’ kickbacks. When retail conglomerates extract $6 million a quarter in mandatory data programs from LPs to secure shelf space, it isn’t retail merchandising—it’s pay-to-play extortion. It crushes craft producers like Shauna Levy who compete on authentic product quality rather than corporate balance sheets.

Chain Question (Part 2): Where in Canada Would You Like to Get High? (1:57:15)

Tom Ritchie Says: What is your chain question for next week’s incoming guest?

Dr. Shane Morris Says: ‘Where in Canada would you like to consume cannabis that you haven’t yet—a location that truly reflects the journey and cultural heritage our industry has fought through?’

Tom Ritchie Says: That’s a fantastic, scenic question! Shane, thank you for sharing your deep expertise and regulatory insights with us today.

Wrap Up & The Campaign to ‘Free CBD’ (2:00:46)

Tom Ritchie Says: What an enlightening episode with Dr. Shane Morris! Gaining insight into the inner workings of Health Canada, the Privy Council, and the battle for sensible CBD policy is invaluable.

Wesley Bowles Says: Shane brings unmatched regulatory depth. It proves that reform requires relentless, evidence-based advocacy.

Tom Ritchie Says: We need to launch the ‘Free CBD’ movement! A huge thank you to Breadstack for powering the show. Retailers, upgrade your e-commerce at the link below, and we’ll catch you next week on Legacies!

NOTABLE QUOTES
“The art and science of making regulations is a bit like growing cannabis: there’s science, there’s art, passion, and understanding.” Dr. Shane Morris — On regulatory drafting and enforcement.

Jump to 01:28

“We’re being left behind. Japan and Australia are moving forward on CBD, but Canada is missing a massive international opportunity.” Dr. Shane Morris — On international CBD trade policies.

Jump to 04:12

“Health Canada needs to get off their ass and do something, because this is getting out of control.” Tom Ritchie — On natural health product regulations.

Jump to 03:35

KEY TAKEAWAYS

✔Autoflowering Patent Precedents: Aurora Cannabis's patent on autoflowering genetics represents a significant precedent in cannabis intellectual property, enabling developers to license standardized cultivars for outdoor agricultural production.
✔Mainstream CBD Distribution Gap: Restricting CBD wellness products to adult-use retail dispensaries with high-THC warnings limits access for senior and recovery demographics, highlighting the commercial need for a distinct Cannabis Health Product (CHP) retail pathway.
✔Economic Opportunity Loss: Establishing a compliant CHP pathway could expand Canada's CBD wellness market from $45 million to an estimated $2 billion in five years, preventing the country from falling behind international markets like Japan and Australia.
✔Regulatory Drafting Complexity: Effective public policy relies on balancing scientific risk assessment with enforcement feasibility, requiring collaboration between industry operators and regulatory bodies like Health Canada.
✔Genetic Drift & Intellectual Property: Enforcing plant patents in commercial cannabis is operationally complex due to genetic drift caused by differing nutrient regimes, lighting, and mother room cloning practices.
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