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In this educational episode of the Legacies Podcast, hosts Tom Ritchie and Wesley Bowles review their visit to the OCS Buzzkill popup store on Queen Street, discuss AGLC updates regarding retail sampling restrictions, and advocate for the BC Cannabis Alliance petition. They welcome Pierre Killeen, co-founder of the Cannabis Standards Alliance of Canada (CANNSAC). Pierre discusses his background at Hexo and the Cannabis Council of Canada, explaining how CANNSAC is establishing voluntary standards to standardize THC potency testing across labs. He details how Quebec’s Napoleonic Code legal system results in more rigid regulations compared to the Rest of Canada’s common law tradition. Finally, Dustin Hughes of Rad Source Technologies joins for Part 2 of the ‘Keep It Clean’ series, explaining the science of e-beam and x-ray remediation and how cultivators can proactively prevent microbial contamination to ensure a safe, clean product.
Tom Ritchie Says: Hey, what’s going on, everyone? Check out what’s coming up this week on Legacies.
Tom Ritchie Says: How can you be such a man, but also sound like your balls have been cut off?
Pierre Killeen Says: I will probably never say this again publicly—get ready to mark the clip—the regulator simply cannot keep pace with the dynamism and innovation of this sector.
Dustin Hughes Says: A good friend in Boulder, Colorado once told me: ‘There are two types of people in cannabis: those who have mold, and liars.’
Tom Ritchie Says: Hey, welcome to Legacies, everyone! I’m your host, Tom Ritchie, joined as always by Wesley ‘The Wizard’ Bowles. Wes, good morning, sir. How are you?
Wesley Bowles Says: Good morning! Doing well this morning.
Tom Ritchie Says: Remember that meeting we had with someone who said, ‘I’m better than average’? That line stuck in my head. Anyway, let’s remind everyone that Legacies is powered by Breadstack. Retailers, if you want to level up your e-commerce and retail tech game, reach out to the Breadstack crew. We caught up with Rishi last week—he took a massive motorcycle trip from Ottawa all the way down through Chicago and Michigan.
Wesley Bowles Says: That is hardcore this late in the fall with snow creeping in. He picked up incredible flower passing through Michigan and sent photos of their dispensaries. The branding on US retail shelves looks like mainstream retail—it’s a completely different marketing landscape down there.
Tom Ritchie Says: You went a bit MIA over the weekend, Wes. I thought you were gallivanting, but it turns out you caught food poisoning.
Wesley Bowles Says: Yeah, I was wiped out for a couple of days. Still recovering, but slowly getting back to normal.
Tom Ritchie Says: Didn’t you hit Chick-fil-A in Burlington last night right after being sick?
Wesley Bowles Says: Having lived in Texas for seven years, it was a staple. It’s just a simple, well-made fried chicken breast on a soft bun with two pickles. Super clean and delicious.
Tom Ritchie Says: Over the weekend, I went to a Led Zeppelin tribute band concert at Capitol 33 in Delhi, Ontario. It’s a gorgeous restored heritage theatre with a great restaurant and Airbnb lofts. I enjoyed a Simply Bare Harlequin pre-roll beforehand, and when the band played ‘No Quarter’, they completely nailed it. The keyboardist looked exactly like Trent Crimm from Ted Lasso, and the guitarist was pulling out the violin bow and theremin like Jimmy Page.
Wesley Bowles Says: A theremin is one of the hardest instruments to play without sounding abrasive—you have to be spot on.
Tom Ritchie Says: After watching The Upside with Kevin Hart and Bryan Cranston, I have gotten deeply into opera in the mornings while setting up the studio. It provides incredible energy alongside jazz.
Wesley Bowles Says: I’ve heard studies saying high-powered executives who blast opera might be unhinged, so we’ll keep an eye on you! Speaking of live shows, I’m going to see Iron Maiden this weekend. They are one of the few legacy heavy metal acts that sound better live than on the studio records because they stick straight to the greatest hits.
Tom Ritchie Says: We visited the Ontario Cannabis Store’s Buzzkill anti-illicit pop-up on Queen Street in Toronto and posted a walk-through video. The store aesthetic is dark, moody, and clearly designed for shock-and-awe earned media. David Lobo was on the news discussing it, but the broader industry reaction has been mixed.
Wesley Bowles Says: The custom packaging for all the fake illicit SKUs and high-end video displays made it feel like a very high-budget campaign. Yesterday, I officially filed a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Ministry of Finance and the OCS to uncover the exact taxpayer budget allocated to this initiative and the agency behind it, LG2.
Tom Ritchie Says: LG2 executed the creative well from an agency perspective, but fear-based marketing that demonizes all legacy growers alienates the community. Rather than spending millions on shock-value campaigns, operators would rather see the OCS reduce wholesale markups, lower listing fees, and champion the craftsmanship of legal producers.
Tom Ritchie Says: Right around industry events, the Alberta Gaming, Liquor and Cannabis agency (AGLC) issued a bulletin stating that brand product samples could only be given to corporate store owners, not budtenders or event attendees.
Wesley Bowles Says: Trina Fraser raised the logical flaw immediately: how does a corporation consume a sample? If retail owners don’t consume cannabis, how can staff make authentic recommendations to customers without trying the product?
Tom Ritchie Says: Regulators need to step back and let brands bear their own promotional costs responsibly. If you can sample Baileys or wine inside an LCBO, budtenders should be able to sample regulated products under compliant reporting.
Tom Ritchie Says: A reminder to everyone: sign the BC Craft Cannabis Alliance petition. They are pushing for urgent regulatory and tax reform for craft growers. Check the link in our description, confirm your signature via email, and support the independent growers keeping this industry grounded.
Tom Ritchie Says: Welcome back! We are joined by Pierre Killeen, Executive Director of the Cannabis Standards Alliance of Canada (CANNSAC).
Pierre Killeen Says: Thanks for having me, Tom and Wes! Great to be here.
Tom Ritchie Says: Pierre, you have deep roots in policy and government relations, having been employee number 70 at Hydropothecary (HEXO) working alongside Dr. Shane Morris, followed by years leading policy at the Cannabis Council of Canada. What led to the formation of CANNSAC?
Pierre Killeen Says: Throughout my career in Ottawa, I saw the unintended consequences created by the gap between rigid government regulations and day-to-day operational realities. In mature sectors, industry-led standards bridge that gap. We formed CANNSAC so the cannabis sector can come together, establish standardized testing protocols, and build a level playing field.
Tom Ritchie Says: Why has Quebec maintained such strict rules—like banning vape concentrates and capping THC at 30%?
Pierre Killeen Says: First, federal legalization was driven by the federal Liberal government, leading to provincial jurisdictional pushback. Second, Quebec operates under the civil law Napoleonic Code rather than British common law. In common law, there is room for judicial interpretation and gray areas; the Napoleonic Code prefers strict, codifying text with zero tolerance for ambiguity. Combined with cultural conservatism around substance use, Quebec opted for tight state control via the SQDC.
Tom Ritchie Says: Why did CANNSAC choose THC potency testing as its initial primary focus?
Pierre Killeen Says: At the C-45 conference in Hamilton, Health Canada, the OCS, and the AGLC explicitly stated they will not dictate laboratory methodology—they want the industry to self-standardize. THC potency inflation is distorting the entire wholesale market. When identical flower tests at 34% in Ontario but 29.8% in Quebec, consumer trust erodes.
Pierre Killeen Says: CANNSAC is addressing two core pillars: standardizing how licensed producers pull representative batch samples, and standardizing laboratory sample preparation and testing methods. If we align on those two pillars with independent oversight, provincial distributors can rely on uniform data.
Pierre Killeen Says: Think of the VQA standard in the Canadian wine industry, Fair Trade in coffee, or organic certification in agriculture. When consumers see a certified standard, it validates quality without relying strictly on an arbitrary THC percentage.
Tom Ritchie Says: The hyper-focus on high THC has pushed historic landrace cultivars and rich terpene-heavy profiles off dispensary shelves. When legacy growers operated, nobody judged flower by a laboratory number; you judged it by cure, nose, trim, and bag appeal.
Wesley Bowles Says: What is your response to micro-cultivators who worry that industry alliances turn into ‘pay-to-play’ clubs dominated by large corporate LPs?
Pierre Killeen Says: That feedback is completely valid. We are implementing tiered fee structures scaled to company revenue so micros are never priced out. Next week, we are launching our free open community forums at cannsac.org so independent growers, budtenders, and lab techs can directly shape standard-setting working groups.
Pierre Killeen Says: Beyond flower potency, we are hosting our first Vaping Standards Workshop on November 6th, co-chaired by Walker Patton from Woody Nelson and Keith Ba from ARO. We are standardizing category terminology—defining what genuinely qualifies as full-spectrum, live resin, and live rosin versus flavored distillate.
Pierre Killeen Says: Regulators like Health Canada, the OCS, the AGLC, and the SQDC participate in our standard-setting observer group. Once we establish credible standards, regulators can incorporate them through ‘incorporation by reference’ under the Standards Council of Canada.
Tom Ritchie Says: Pierre, thank you for championing quality standards and transparency across Canadian cannabis!
Pierre Killeen Says: Thank you both for the opportunity to share our work!
Tom Ritchie Says: Welcome back! We are continuing Part 2 of our Clean vs. Dirty Cannabis series with Dustin Hughes of Rad Source Technologies!
Dustin Hughes Says: Hey Tom, hey Wes! Thanks for having me on.
Tom Ritchie Says: Dustin, you have deep legacy cultivation roots in Colorado, holds a US patent in container growing, and now work with Rad Source. How did a legacy grower get behind irradiation tech?
Dustin Hughes Says: Like most legacy growers, I was originally skeptical of irradiation because early technologies—like radio frequency, ozone gas, or harsh gamma—stripped terpenes and cooked the flower. Rad Source invited me to Las Vegas for double-blind sensory tests on cured flower. I couldn’t identify which sample had been treated; the aroma, moisture, and trichome integrity were completely preserved. That converted me.
Dustin Hughes Says: In our industry, ‘remediation’ is the scary word because it implies fixing a failed, moldy crop after the fact. We view our technology as photonic decontamination—a standard, cold post-harvest step that prevents microbial outbreaks before they can start.
Dustin Hughes Says: As my old mentor in Boulder said, there are only two types of growers: those who have encountered mold, and liars. We live in a world full of ambient spores. Integrating decontamination ensures safe flower across the entire supply chain.
Tom Ritchie Says: How does photonic decontamination differ from ozone, steam, or heat treatments?
Dustin Hughes Says: Ozone and reactive oxygen are surface chemical treatments that don’t penetrate dense buds. Radio frequency oscillates water molecules, generating heat that prematurely decarboxylates cannabinoids and evaporates light terpenes.
Dustin Hughes Says: Rad Source uses a specialized cold X-ray Quastar emitter producing a ‘photonic cloud’ in an enclosed cabinet. The high-energy photons penetrate down to the flower’s core, breaking the cellular DNA bonds of microbial pathogens like Aspergillus, Salmonella, E. coli, and powdery mildew so they cannot replicate. Complex hydrocarbon chains like THC, CBD, and terpenes absorb and disperse the energy safely without degrading.
Dustin Hughes Says: Rad Source originated as a precision medical device manufacturer. Our primary division manufactures equipment used globally to irradiate blood for human transfusions, as well as sterilizing mosquitoes for pesticide-free vector control.
Dustin Hughes Says: Our flagship 420 XL unit processes up to 50 pounds of cannabis per cycle across five rotating canisters. Because photons penetrate solid barriers, cultivators can run flower inside final sealed packaging or turkey bags, eliminating any risk of cross-contamination during secondary handling.
Tom Ritchie Says: Why do microbial action thresholds vary so dramatically across jurisdictions?
Dustin Hughes Says: Colony forming unit (CFU) thresholds vary widely—10,000 CFU in Colorado versus 100,000 CFU in California. But when it comes to Aspergillus mold spores, most jurisdictions enforce a zero-tolerance ‘one-spore’ threshold because inhaling active spores poses life-threatening pulmonary risks to immunocompromised medical patients.
Dustin Hughes Says: If a batch tests at 9,000 CFU in a 10,000 CFU limit, that mold continues multiplying on warm dispensary shelves or delivery vans. Photonic decontamination drives microbial presence down to non-detectable levels, ensuring stable shelf life.
Tom Ritchie Says: Dustin, thank you for demystifying photonic decontamination and sharing how medical-grade technology protects consumer health!
Dustin Hughes Says: Thanks Tom and Wes! Appreciate having me on.
Tom Ritchie Says: Wes, combining CANNSAC’s standard-setting mission with Rad Source’s clean post-harvest technology shows where the future of cannabis must go.
Wesley Bowles Says: If Canadian operators want to lead international export markets before US federal reform opens up global trade, establishing verified testing standards and non-detectable microbial baselines is essential.
Tom Ritchie Says: Thanks for tuning in to Legacies! Sign the BC Craft petition, check out Breadstack to elevate your dispensary tech, and we’ll see you next week!
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Co-founder & Representative
Pierre Killeen is a policy advisor, regulatory lawyer, and co-founder of the Cannabis Standards Alliance of Canada (CANNSAC).
View Guest Profile ↗Professional Standards Organization
The Cannabis Standards Alliance of Canada (CANNSAC) is a national non-profit organization established to develop and promote voluntary industry standards...
Learn More About Partner ↗CANNSAC is a national non-profit organization established to develop and promote voluntary quality standards for cannabis testing and reporting. They focus on standardizing THC potency measurement and eliminating laboratory shopping.
Pierre Killeen explains that Quebec follows the Napoleonic Code legal tradition where rules are explicitly written and codified with little room for looseness, combined with cultural and political factors that favor stricter controls.
Dustin Hughes from Rad Source Technologies explains their specialization in remediation technology (like e-beam, x-ray, and gamma) that helps cultivators neutralize microbial contaminants (yeasts, molds, bacteria) while preserving cannabinoid and terpene integrity.
